Empaths, Intuitives & Introverts Need to Do Business Differently
Are you in business for yourself? And does it sometimes feel like everyone's got it down except you? Are you working super hard, and yet you're not getting clients or you don't have enough clients to make ends meet? Well, today I want to introduce you to my friend Carly Clark Zimmer. She's a holistic business coach who's sooo amazing at guiding introverts, empaths and intuitives to find their own paths towards financial success! Here's our IG Live conversation about what that looks like:
If this sounds like you (or if you watched our interview and loved what we discussed, then you’ve gotta register for Carly’s LIVE Class happening three times this week! Just go here to sign up:
It will be worth your time!
Now, here's the transcript of our conversation below: (Please note that it's not super accurate because a computer did it, but it's here for those who are hearing impaired.)
Katy (00:02):
Happy Friday, everyone! Hope you're doing well today, I'm gonna have someone that I really love dearly on live with me. I'm excited to introduce you to this wonderful, wonderful person.
Carly: (00:55):
Yes. Oh, I just put a filter on, I feel like I'm matching your California vibe a little bit now.
Katy (01:03):
I love it. I love it. I know it's a really beautiful day out today too.
Carly (01:10):
Here too. It's it's warm in Ireland and I was saying to a friend this morning, it's kind of like summer already because in Ireland, like the temperature only fluctuates about 10 to 15 degrees. We're like, oh,it's summer.
Katy (01:28):
Yay. Yes. Finally summer! well I was just talking before you came on. I was just saying that like, you're, you're like one of my favorite people I just love like what you're putting out in the world and just your vibe and all of the things that like, I don't know, there's just something so wonderful and calming and, and also very heartfelt about you. Like you serve heartfelt entrepreneurs. however, that's who you are.
Carly (02:08):
Thank you so much. That, that means so much to me. And I know we go way back. I think we joined like a program together when I was still at the very beginning of my whole coaching journey and we got to support each other a little bit and it's just been so wonderful to continue to get to know you and deepen our relationship and see you grow it's been really powerful.
Katy (02:30):
Yeah. Great people. Well you, yeah, so excited. you have a program now for those people who are just getting started in their business. it's called first five. but I would love for you to tell everyone before we get into the, I would love for you to tell everyone just a little bit more about you and how you work.
Carly (03:01):
Entrepreneurs. And hopefully my internet connection remains. what I'd love to do that is kind of different. Like, I wouldn't even call myself a business coach because it's more about looking at the individual, their values, how they wanna feel, and then looking at their energy and knowing that as sensitive types, right? Highly sensitive people, empaths, introverts, people who are really intuitive, we kind of have to operate in a different way and that hustle and grind and go, go, go. It just, we can do it sometimes, but it, you, it's not quite sustainable for us. And what I see is a lot of times we try to do those, that style of building our business. And then I see people burnout pretty quickly.
Katy (03:55):
Yes. I was actually just talking to someone about this. They were telling me there was, it was a client of mine and she was telling me about how she's in a program where there's like funnels and, and all this stuff. Right. And she's feeling very overwhelmed. Plus when she was trying to apply most of it, it just didn't work for her. And she's a very kind of, you know, she's very artistic, very creative, and very intuitive as well. And I was thinking like it's probably not working because that's just not how we operate. right. Like, I don't think I could operate with like all of those things either.
Carly (04:41):
here's the thing that I find is most people in the online world, they teach funnels straight away. They teach like this really cool. It's really cool, like amazing marketing strategy. But if you are at the beginning and we're just getting your business off the ground, it takes a tremendous amount of energy. So my approach, what I suggests instead is like, make sure, you know, your values get clear on the vision, even if it's a little foggy, but like what kind of business do you wanna have? How do you wanna feel in that business? And then we can look at how to start building that from where you are right now, which often times I see people spend a year, you a funnel or creating a course and they haven't even had one client yet. And I'm like, that is, that is putting the cart before the horse. Like, we've gotta look at how to actually get you connected with people so that you can, then that experience will inform your lead magnet, your funnel, your course, all that. And I see so many people just trying to do the opposite and they wonder why it's so hard. And if we can like flip it and actually use our body to get that real life experience, like you're gonna know exactly what to create for them because you're, you're doing it in real time.
Katy (06:07):
I wish I had your program when I got, when I was first starting out because there are so many things that people teach us that I feel like you're skipping, you're skipping a bunch of steps and your program really teaches like a, a solid foundation to actually help you to make sure that you, you know, how to do certain things before you actually can run with it.
Carly (06:41):
Like how do you talk to people about what you do? Like we've gotta get, what do you do? What is your offer, right. Do you have simple systems to like, get people on the phone? Like this is, I always kind of joke Katy. It's like, what I teach is like not super sexy, but it's so important, right. In order to have certain simple systems in place so that you can, then I like to say, like, it supports you embodying that business that you wanna create. Right. It's if you have those systems in place, then you can focus on, okay, what are my values? How can I embody values and bring that into my marketing? Right. And into my programs. And if we don't have those systems in place, we can be like posting on social every day. But if you have no way to connect with people, your efforts might just kind of fall flat. And then we like it eats away at our confidence because we're like, I'm putting posts out there, but I'm not getting anything. So maybe nobody wants this, but yet we're like skipping a couple steps first.
Katy (07:47):
And wouldn't you say that's like probably one of the most, one of the things that holds people, especially intuitive, heartfelt entrepreneurs really back is that like, they're, they're working so hard and yet they're not getting any results or making any money?
Carly (08:07):
Yeah. It's that. And then it's this other piece that when we were, when we met in the program, we met and I struggled with so much it's for a lot of people who are close to their miss, it's this visibility piece of like, it's vulnerable to let yourself be seen and say, this work like means so much to me. I wanna put it out in the world. And so we've got to move through this internal work that comes with being seen and like putting our business out there. And honestly, like I, on the surface first five looks like systems and it is all that kind of stuff like we talked about, but really it's this piece of being in a supportive environment to start to practice that visibility. So then you can actually do it out there. And you're not just being really busy, like building the courses and building the opt-ins and, you know, building the funnel, but like never telling anybody about your business. Like, we've gotta do that first. And, um, honestly that is, is the biggest thing that if people are struggling with visibility, that's really what we focus on is like the internal piece of putting yourself out there, sending those first emails, um, and really letting people know about your business, which is a big step.
Katy (09:32):
It is a big step and, and we can get that. Right. Totally.
Carly (09:36):
It's so hard to build this funnel.
Katy (09:38):
Exactly. And we can also just distract ourselves with all of this stuff. Right. We can distract ourselves by working on our website forever. I remember when I first started, yeah. Before I had gotten any clients that were not friends...I was working on my website and I probably could have worked on it forever if but then I saw in a Facebook group that I'm in, where somebody described what they needed from me. They described like, oh, I'm looking for a, somebody to help me with my finances, who is also a creative, who also understands the ups and downs of the TV industry. And I was like, who is she talking to? But me. So then I was like, okay, let me hurry up and get my website just as good as possible and then send it out, you know? And, and then, yeah, she became one of my first non friend clients.
Carly (10:40):
That's, I love it.
Katy (10:41):
Yeah. I just really wanna stress, especially as a money coach. I wanna stress that. Like sometimes like it, it informs us if we can just get ourselves out there and actually get a client or two or three. Right. Because then we're sort of proving to ourselves that we can actually do this. This can actually be a viable business rather than getting ourselves stuck in some sort of funnel or course.
Carly (11:11):
Absolutely. It's, you know, my husband works in tech and they're doing this six week incubator that they do once a quarter. And the very first thing they start with is like the minimal viable product. And I think as coaches, sometimes we like forget about that. Like, yes, we need this proof of concept. So let's get those couple clients in the door so that you know, that people want your program, that people actually do have the problem that you're looking to solve. We're not just like making up a problem. Oh my goodness. So back in January, I stayed at this amazing house. There was house sitting, but I was joking that they were coming up with problems to solve. Like there was a refrigerator where you pushed on the refrigerator and the door would open for you. and I was like, this is a problem. I never knew that I actually had , which is just hilarious. Yes. But I digress. yeah, it is super important because then once you have those couple of clients, your confidence builds, you have the language to be emailing your list. You have the problems to create that really juicy opt-in. Right. You kind of know what that first step is for somebody. And it's all gonna come from real life experience. Instead of I'm just sitting like behind my computer making stuff up
Carly (12:39):
And like, it's kind of the hard truth, but I see a lot of people do it and no judgment because I've done it. Like, I actually spent a couple years working on my website building programs that I never talked to anybody about, like thinking it was a problem and it wasn't, so there's no judgment there, but that's really where my passion for this work has come from,because I've just seen so many people try to skip ahead without bringing inthose first couple of clients and really getting that confidence and proof content.
Katy (13:11):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, and yeah, there is no judgment. I mean the visibility piece that you were just talking about, I was, I was working through that all last year. You know, I, I got to a point where I was like, okay, I even need to be more out there and then like, yeah. And get my message out there. And so if something that's, um, it's a growth process right. In our businesses. Um, and I think that because of who you serve and, and where you're coming from, I think that you have a really great understanding of someone who may not be like the extraverted person. Who's just like, Hey, look at me, I'm, you know, this is what I'm doing, and this is what I'm doing. let's talk about that a little bit, because I think that, um, there are so many entre, like, you don't think of an entrepreneur as somebody who is a little bit more introverted or shy, or, you know, the doesn't love the spotlight, however we exist
Carly (14:21):
We do believe it or not.
Katy (14:23):
so what do you see as one of the biggest struggles, um, with entrepreneurs who are more, uh, you know, who doesn't love the spotlight as much?
Carly (14:36):
Yeah. Biggest thing that comes immediately to mind is this comparison that we have to do things the way that an extrovert might be doing things, which I just don't feel like that is at all the truth. Right. We can find our own ways to be visible. That feel really good for us. And they don't necessarily have to be an Instagram or Facebook live. what I love to kind of coach my clients on is let's figure out this first layerof what feels good for you, which may be writing. Right. Maybe I know a lot of introverts, like we process things a little bit differently. So maybe it's, let's get consistent with your email list first so that you can start to find your voice and how to express yourself through the writing. And when people do this, right. They are actually uncovering what their voice is in their business.
Carly (15:39):
And my friend, Shayna always says like every entrepreneur who has their own business, like they are a writer, like, they're doing lots and lots and lots of writing. so we're finding our voice. And that's what I love to help people get clear on is like, what is, what is the first layer that is going to feel like a step outside of your comfort zone, but not push you into the panic zone so that you don't then send another, you wait to like a month or two before you send another email, cuz it took up so much energy. Right. So we wanna find that first like step out so you can get comfortable with it, get comfortable with it. And then maybe you can add on the next layer. And I feel like I've seen you do this, right? Like you've been really consistent with your emails and then it started to be lives. And now you're doing amazing reels. Like you're just adding on the layers and it's fantastic.
Katy (16:36):
Yeah. Yeah. So I love that. So you, you're basically saying that we don't have to, because there are those coaches who just kind of push you off the ledge and, and then you're like, ah, I don't know what I'm doing and now I'm falling. So you're that we don't have to do it that way. We don't have to just like take the deep dive immediately instead that we can actually take gradual steps to get ourselves even more and morecomfortable with going into the deep end.
Carly (17:10):
Exactly. And it's really just exploring what feels authentic to you. Right? If it doesn't feel authentic for you to go on video, well, let's, let's explore some other options. There's plenty of other, there are lots of other ways to market before social media. So like we can go old school and like find other ways for you to connect with people. Um, and this is where I'd love to bring in this values conversation that I know is so important for you too, in your audience. It's like, okay, what actually aligns with your values? How can you embody those values in your marketing process? So for me, like I value connection. So doing something like this with you feels amazing. And my emails, when I write them to my list, it's, it's more about connection. It's not just like to put some content out there. It's like, what do I really wanna share with this amazing community that's around me?
Carly (18:09):
Because that helps me embody that value of connection. So that's what we wanna be looking at. And it's also the conversation of it might take us a little bit longer than someone who's extroverted, cuz maybe we're not going live every day or like just walking around and telling people about our business. But looking at the bigger picture and then being really intentional with where you are focusing your energy. And for me, what that looked like for a while was like putting blinders on and just like, I'm doing my thing here. I know everyone's saying I should do all these other things, but I'm gonna focus somewhat feels good to me instead of doing something that feels like inauthentic or just like doesn't like that spark, if that makes sense.
Katy (18:58):
Yeah. Yeah. That makes total sense. And with embodiment, I mean, how do you, how do you embody when, you know, when you feel like, Ugh, all of this stuff is not authentic to me, right? Like if, if it feels like, you know, I don't know a lot of people talk about how sales doesn't feel authentic. Right. The sales process.
Carly (19:26):
Oh my gosh. It's such a good question. So, I was on an enrollment team for a little while, cuz I'm always like, I'm always curious,that's another value of mine. So I've learned lots of frameworks for sales over the years. And I say like get curious and find a couple of different processes.And then for me it's actually like pulling out a piece or two of those that feel authentic and then kind of being the rebel and throwing the rest out.Like, I know what I should do here. It's like coach you through your objections, but I am not gonna do that. right. Yes. Um, and again, that comes with time. I, I, I wanna admit that, right. I wasn't like that in the beginning, but I just had a, a client. We have an offer framework inside the program and it's literally like a paragraph, like an intro paragraph and like a few questions to kind of just make sure you're asking people, um, questions to help them make a decision. And she was like, this is the craziest framework ever so simple. It's not like,
Carly (20:36):
It it's like two steps. I'm like, yeah, you can just be you in the sales process. You don't have to be a weird, awkward sales person.So I think that circles right back around to what we were saying about working with a couple people. Right? You find your confidence, you find that flow and then you find your way to do itand you can kind of throw out what, what all the experts say. .
Katy (21:02):
Yeah. I love that. I mean, I, I feel like I do sales, you know, I, a discovery call very differently because I really, I actually really coach somebody. Right. Like a lot of times, I've been in other programs where people say like, don't, don't even coach somebody. Right. They don't, you know, you, you don't need, I mean, you can coach them around their objectives, but like don't actually give them of acoaching session. And I don't know, for me it doesn't work that way. I really want to give from that perspective. And so yeah, like I feel like what you're saying is very true. It's like we need to work within what feels authentic to us. Right. in order for it to work for others.
Carly (21:47):
Yeah. And how is that process working out for you?
Katy (21:51):
It's worked out very well. I'm always full of clients .
Carly (21:57):
So It works. Like if I were to give a piece of advice, it would just be, and I went through this all last year of pay attention to your body. And if something was feel like, Ugh, icky or off, like pay attention to that and don't do it.
(22:15):
Even if people are saying like, that's probably what you should do. And last year I made multiple decisions where I was like, I'm kind of, you know, think I should do this, but something feels off about it. And then I would try it and it would flop. And I was like, oh, okay. I'm, I'm going to really lean into trusting that intuition because it's, it's really powerful and strong. And I think a lot of times we, and especially as like introverts, we might outsource that and think that the experts know better than us, but if we can tap into our energy and just really get aligned with, oh, that that doesn't feel good to me or that feels amazing. I'm gonna do that. My intuition's calling me that way. Like this is that gut reaction that people are always talking about. So it's, it's learning to embrace that at and use that as part of your marketing strategy really mm-hmm um,
Katy (23:17):
That, that leads me to another point is like in your program, do you also teach that, do you also teach how to really listen to your gut? Listen to that intuition, because I find that to be such an important piece of being an entrepreneur. However, most of us are not trained to do that. Especially as women we're very much like, oh, whatever everyone else is wantingus to do, we're gonna go towards that.
Carly (23:46):
Totally not to mention societal patriarchal, like all these other layers that are on top of it. Right. so one thing that we do is we do live calls and I always say to people like, if you can't come to live calls, I'd rather you not join the program because that's really like when, where the juiciness is. And on those calls, when they come in, I have them fill out this intake form so I can really get a sense of their values, how they wanna feel what their vision is for the business. And then on the live calls, that's where I have the opportunity to really coach them. Right. Not consult, but really be coaching on. Okay. What feels true and authentic for you? Let's explore how you get to embody that. And sometimes I have people come in and they're like, wait, so I don't have to do all those other, like I only have to do two of the modules. And it's like, yes. So like we actually built in to the program, like permission to not complete this and move ahead. wow. Right. It's like, you don't have to follow my framework. Exactly. It's more about like, let's find what feels really good to you. And that's a process of trusting that I think we do foster in the community, so I, I don'tnecessarily directly teach it, but I think it's something people get to experience, uh, along the way.
Katy (25:14):
that's so powerful. Oh, let's well, let's, let's give everybody a little bit of a taste of kind of your framework. give us like two or three of the, the five steps, are
Carly (25:30):
Sure. Um, let's see. Well, I'll do the first, the first two and the last one. So, okay. The, the first one is all about this vision,cuz again, I think people just dive in and they're like, let's, let's just dive into like building this funnel. But for, I feel like we've gotta have a clear sense of where we're going. So we can almost reverse engineer what pieces we wanna put into place. So it's guiding you through by using your values and howyou wanna feel to create that vision. Even if it's just like a right now vision. And then we go into this embodied marketing process, which is framework to really, um, test your idea and get some real time feedback on it. So you can then create an offer that is, uh, viable. And then from there we have a couple tech things. Um, and then the last module is taking them to launch it for the first time.
Carly (26:28):
So that's in a nutshell, it's literally from like vision to, let's do some research to putting that offer together, setting up a few tech things and then let's put it out there. and there are templates and all sorts of goodies that go along with it. And as always, they're like, jumping off place right. To help you. Cause I always find it's easier to just like see an example than stare at a blank page sometimes so that's it in a nutshell, super fun. great community. Like that's probably the thing I'm most proud of of last year is the, like the safe, supportive container that we've built for these people to practice that visibility and then actually take those steps to put it out there.
Katy (27:19):
Yeah. And I've actually seen, uh, one of your clients, like when, before she kind of, when she first started your program and she had like no clients and you know, didn't even know if this was possible. And she was like wanting to get rid of her kind of more day job. Right. and then to start to build throughout the year program, she got her first client and then she got her second client and she got her third, you know, it was like so exciting to actually watch like her progress. And I believe now I don't think she's actually working at her day job anymore and she's, you know, she really full time in her coaching business, which is amazing, you know? Yeah. Such a dream and you know, and I know that she really, really felt like the, the process that she put together helped her so much to be able to, to do that, to do all of that.
Carly (28:22):
That's amazing. Like that's why we, you, this work, right? Like, oh, thank you for sharing that.
Katy (28:28):
yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, everyone, I think that if you are, you know, somebody who is, um, intuitive, very heartfelt, really you want kind of a, a system, a really great fit foundation for the work that you're putting out there in this world. I mean, you, we are all like light workers. I really believe in that. I really believe that, you know, um, there, there needs to be even more coaches out in the world because, you know, there's like 7 billion people on this planet, you know totally yeah. There needs to be support, you know, and, and notj ust, you know, support for a certain type of person, but for all kinds of people. Right. And so if you have this calling to do this work, however, you're like, I don't, I don't know if I wanna go in to like all the, all the stuff that like other people are teaching because I, I personally, it has never worked for me to like create a funnel and do all of those other things. I really believe that your program is, you know, the best out there for this. And like, like I said, like, I wish when I first got started that the, your program was around because this would've been so helpful for me. And I think that it would've led me to even a, a better place than I even am today. because like having that foundation is really key. So that once you're kind of in the messy middle, it doesn't, it, you don't like start to go, oh my gosh, I like everything's unraveling.
Carly (30:21):
Definitely
Carly (30:22):
thank you so much for the kind words. And, you know if people wanna get just like a taste of what it's like to work with me, I am teaching a couple of free classes next week. If they wanna go to my bio, you can sign up, it's totally free and you can just get a sense of how I teach and what I, she just wanna come and check it out. the class is called, ready, organized, and visible. And we're gonna talk about what keeps us from feeling ready sometimes. and like wanting all the things before we actually take that next step. We're gonna talk about the, I'll actually show you the systems to put in place. So you, even, if you don't join, you can get started there. And then we're gonna talk about this visibility piece and what it really means to step into that.
Carly (31:09):
So they're welcome to come to the free class and, um, again, like thank you so much for the kind words. Um, and, and also, you know, that you don't have to have a funnel or a course, like you can, you can fill your private coaching business or service based business, like with one on one clients, and that's totally fine, which isn't comes right back to your values and your vision. Like, do you want like an empire online or do you want like a nice business where you connect with people one on one, like it's totally fine. And up to you do it depends on your vision and what you wanna create in the world.
Katy (31:47):
I agree. And I actually think that even if you do want the courses and all that kind of stuff, you, I think you must start with one on one clients so that you can really
Carly (31:57):
A hundred percent
Katy (31:59):
Know. Yeah. Know that the things that you're, you know, not just coaching on, but is that you may be teaching in, you know, will work. Right. Because exactly. You don't know that. Yeah. You don't know that ifyou're just creating the course yeah. You gotta have
Carly (32:15):
Create that course, you know, exactly what to put in it and you know exactly how to market. And in the mean, meantime, you've been building your list and then you have a launch and it's, it's fantastic, you know? Yes. So I, I totally agree. One on one clients is the way to start. Even if you have an idea for a group program, it's like, let's bring a couple in, so you can then hit the ground running. And you know, maybe even a couple weeks,you know, you take someone through an eight week program and there you go.
Katy (32:42):
Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I've seen it, I've seen, you know, clients or people who've worked with you who gotten clients like, like I, you know, probably after module one of your program and started to fill up their, you know, their roster
Carly (33:19):
thank you so much again, for having me on and getting up and early, and we're like on opposite ends of the earth, it feels like right now, but I really appreciate you taking the time.
Katy (33:29):
Oh my gosh. It's my pleasure. Again I just love you and love your work and, um, and I love how you coach and teach. And so, you know, again, yeah. Like if, like you said, people's should go to your free classes to just see how you teach, because I mean, everyone, this, this woman teaches in, in a very unique way, but it's so, it's so like, it really speaks to your heart. And then also it's so clear and, and, and there's just so much, so much like amazing, like juiciness kind of packed into everything that you're doing, you know, you don't just waste time, like talking about fluff you really get to the heart of it.
Carly (34:20):
Thank you. It's not an easy task, you know, it's like so much easier. So to times to teach like a three hour class, cuz you can just do everything, but when you wanna teach like a simple, concise, like get it under an hour, cause people are there live, we've got packet full of goodness. So yeah. Um, yes, come to the class, it'll be super fun. We'll have time for Q and A after and I'm totally accessible. if people have questions they can reach out to me, you know, I'd love sending the DM audio messages. So, feel free to reach out if you have questions about how to sign up or if you just wanna send me a message and I'll share the link. That would be awesome.